Today on the podcast we have Dr. Ryan Dawson who is a chiropractor out of Santa Barbara. His company name is Chromatic Healing. Dr. Dawson is a wealth of knowledge in nutrition, anatomy and physiology. He is also studying the benefits that psychedelic drugs can have on depression, anxiety, and overall well-being. He has a phenomenal life story and I’m very excited to have him on the podcast today.
Listen To The Episode Here
A Psychedelic Experience with Dr. Ryan Dawson
Please welcome, Ryan Dawson. How are you doing?
I’m doing amazing, fantastic. Thank you so much for having me on, Kev.
Dr. Dawson, tell us a little bit about your life story. Where are you from?
Originally, I grew up about an hour east of Kansas City in a small little town called Warrensburg, Missouri. I would not change that for anything. It was such a great place to grow up, very mystical. We lived out in the country and spent a lot of time running around, just getting my hands dirty, just being adventurous as much as I can. My childhood was very interesting in that our family is very close and we went out. My dad and I, we would go hunting. We were very outdoorsy. I’ve always had a really close connection with nature. I’ve always been very in tuned and interested more so in how the body works. Mostly, that comes from my history of being in different athletics. I was always looking for another edge, so that’s what pushed me to go into nutrition and performance. That was just something that blossomed into my life now. It was all a step by step process that led me all the way to chiropractic, brought me to California, and eventually opening up Chromatic Healing. It’s been a ride.
You were a pretty big time baseball player, right? I know that’s a tough question to answer for yourself, but I know you were a big deal.
I played with some great players. I had the opportunity to be on some really good teams and play in some very competitive leagues. I did have a scholarship to pitch at the University of Missouri. I actually played there for about a year. I transferred to the University of Central Missouri and that’s where I ended up getting my degree from; played a few seasons there, actually had to go through some adversity.
Tommy John, right?
Yeah. I threw a lot growing up as a kid. You can have really good mechanics. Biomechanics is something I’ve always liked to study, just being as efficient as possible. That way I could go deeper into games. I was always working on the mechanics. One thing that I really like to implement whenever I’m talking to younger athletes is this idea that you have to win the championship right now, everything’s on the line and all this crazy stuff. It’s really important to just have that experience as a kid and going out competing and not getting too wrapped up in it to where you’re abusing your body. I’m not saying that I wouldn’t have gotten hurt at all in another way or in some other form. I’m not saying that at all.
I definitely want to use my perspective on proper throwing mechanics and my history in baseball to help younger athletes down the road. I have done that. Before I came to chiropractic school, I actually worked in Arizona as a performance specialist and rehab specialist. We would take young youth athletes coming off of elbow strain, shoulder strains. It doesn’t matter if they had surgery or not, we try to implement a very well-rounded protocol based on physical therapy and therapeutic exercise and stretching and program design in order to promote not only healthier mechanics and better performance but resist and prevent injuries. I learned a lot going through Tommy John surgery. It was not only grueling; ten months of physical therapy and lots of hard work, lots of days off. Whenever you want to be out there with the teammates and getting after it and watching everybody else do what you love, it’s very hard. It’s also hard to come back from because of that competitive mental edge that you always need, especially in baseball.
How was your arm physically after that? Mentally, it’s a completely different story. Just physically, how did you feel?
Physically, I responded really well. I had the best surgeon in the world, Dr. James Andrews. We actually went down to Pensacola Beach, Florida. He has his practice down there. We flew down and he’s an awesome guy. He’s a very down to earth guy. He works on some of the world-renowned, greatest athletes. He did Bo Jackson’s hip. He worked on Tiger Woods’ knee. That was my claim to fame. It was an honor meeting him. He did a wonderful job on my surgery. I came back, followed the regimen, the throwing program that he designed. It takes about twelve months usually to come back from Tommy John. Everybody’s body responds a little bit different. I actually worked really hard and got back in nine months. I got to go and play in a summer league called the MINK League which is a wooden bat league for college baseball players where it’s called Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska, and Kansas.
What year were you at this point?
That was my sophomore year in college, so that would have been in 2009. My surgery was on May 19, 2009.
You had two years left after the surgery?
I did. I actually had more than that because I took a red shirt for the surgery. I had that whole year off really just to focus on the rehab and getting ready for summer ball. I ended up coming back that summer and was one of the top three starters on the team. I was in good company. There were other guys in our team that actually had the opportunity to play professional ball. It’s fun because we all pushed each other. It’s also good to be back on the bump. My first game back, I threw six shutout innings and it felt really good.
Were you able to finish out your career strong over there?
I hit a certain point with baseball. Everybody in my whole life told me that this was what I was supposed to do, that I was going to be a professional baseball player. That was always the mindset I was trained in. I never really took a second to think about what else is out there. I didn’t really care because I loved baseball so much. As the game goes on, as you continue to play, you face different adversities; surgery being one. I had different pitching coaches almost every single year that I was in college. That was a speed bump a little bit. As you move up in anything, there’s going to be different politics and different things that change your outlook on the innocence of the game. I still love the game. I have a lot of friends that still play and I definitely want to help younger kids acquire their dreams if that’s what they want to do.
But for me, after that surgery, I realized that there was more out there. A lot of that was having that time off to clear my head and spend more time with myself. I got more into an alternative lifestyle. Going through that surgery, I realized I just had major surgery on my elbow. What was that for? That was for a sport. If you ask any athlete nowadays, that’s normal. For me, I was like, “What else is out there?” I started to challenge status quo. I started to challenge just my own thoughts and just what societal views are. That was the beginning of the road for me as far as shifting my perspective from a guy that was all about baseball; just super straight, very hardworking, very focused. I’ve definitely kept that part of myself but I also let go of a lot of the control that comes with buying into what our day-to-day society says what you’re supposed to do.
Just for an example, right when I had my surgery, I always wanted my own dog. About two weeks after I had my surgery, I drove up to Iowa and picked up Brewin off this farm in Iowa. He is my best buddy. He’s been amazing. The reason I say it, I’m breaking stereotypes by getting a dog, he’s a pit bull. He doesn’t know he’s a pit bull. He’s the sweetest dog in the world. That was the first thing. What is this pit bull think? What’s everybody so freaked out? I wanted to prove to myself and to my family, friends, or whoever that really questioned it that I can have a pit bull. It can be an awesome dog. Breaking that stereotype that pit bulls are bad, that was a big step for me. Getting to spend all that time with him, I wanted to be a good daddy for my puppy. I would take him to the park every day. I would take him out to the park and spend a lot of time in nature. Every single day, I would take him. That was something I didn’t realize. I thought I was just doing it for him. But overtime, I realized that it was just as beneficial for me to go to have that time with him at the park as it was for him to get his exercise and just playing ball and everything. That’s when I really started thinking more, started to relax more and started to implement new ideas into my life.
I actually tried cannabis for the first time. I was 20 years old. I’m not really that type of guy that did any drugs or anything like that and growing up in high school or anything. Like I said, I was pretty straight-edged. That’s because I was always going off of what I was told. I thought I was going to lose my mind or something at the time. I tried it and I’m like, “Maybe there’s more to this too.” I had a pit bull and then I also started trying cannabis and exchanging that for alcohol. I don’t want to demonize any drug, especially alcohol because I love having the occasional beer sitting around the campfire with friends. As long as it’s in a responsible setting and everybody’s having a good time, I don’t see a problem with that. I don’t want to demonize that at all. The only thing I don’t like about it is that’s what our society has chosen to use as their primary source of escape. That was another thing.
I stopped doing the baseball party house and all the things that come with being an athlete, all the things that come with being a kid, and an undergrad. I started to get out in nature more. I played with my dog. I would occasionally smoke here and there. That really just freed me up. I started talking to my friends, “What’s the next step after baseball?” I’m not going to play forever. I don’t know if I want to play forever. I want to explore. I want to travel. I got my degree in Kinesiology. A lot of my friends, we talked about going somewhere, getting out of Warrensburg because it’s a type of place where everybody knows everybody, very small town.
I remember you used to tell me you would all jump in the car and it would take 45 minutes to go to Starbucks.
We would carpool up to Chipotle. That was a big deal for us. I have some great friends there. I still stay in contact with all of them. Almost on a daily basis, I talk to some of them. The connections that I have there, I’m truly thankful for. I have some amazing, wonderful friends. I actually haven’t been home in a couple of years. I’d like to go back maybe this summer and go see everybody and fill them in on what’s to come because there are big things happening out here.
You graduated and went to Missouri, you lived out in Arizona for a little bit. You did personal training and then you ended up in California, right?
I got my degree in Kinesiology. I wanted to leave home. I wanted to get out. One place that I wanted to go, as simple as this sounds, I wanted to go to some place where I could legally be a medical cannabis patient. I didn’t want to break the law. I didn’t want to be a part of some situation or some scenario where it wasn’t legitimate. I knew that there was lots of movement going on out West so I applied for a few jobs in Colorado, Arizona, California, even sent one up to New York and Florida too because they were on the verge of acquiring their medicinal cannabis industry and their whole state program at that time. I ended up getting a job in Arizona. Starting off, just to get me out there and just to pay the rent, I worked as a personal trainer at a really cool gym called Lifetime Fitness. I was like, I’m living the dream because coming from Missouri and going out to Arizona, I thought I was on vacation. I was able to go out to the pool in the middle of January, February and just hang out. This is the life. After a few months of doing that, I love personal training but also at that point in my life, coming straight out of school, being an athlete, I didn’t really understand why people needed motivation in order to take care of themselves. At that point in my life, it just came so natural to me to want to improve my life, improve my physical attributes, my mental attributes.
You just got sick and tired of telling people, motivating people day after day after day?
It wasn’t the motivation. I always loved to motivate people. I tried to bring the energy. This was about six years ago, at that point in my life I just couldn’t wrap my mind around why everybody doesn’t have more interest in what they’re putting into their body. I wanted to go back and I wanted to work with athletes again because you don’t have to tell them why they need to work out. They already know that they need this and they’re open books usually. They’ll do whatever you tell them as long as it’s going to improve their performance. I went and got a little job working in Southern Phoenix at a place called FAST, which stands for Foothills Acceleration and Sports Training. We would do performance programs for athletes in the area. I actually was a strength conditioning coach for Chandler High School and I would take their football team and all their sports through their training. We also would have people come in to our facility on site at Chandler and take them to their workouts in there as well.
I did that for about six months. It was an amazing experience. I’m still good friends with Travis. He was my boss at the time. It was a great opportunity. But I wasn’t able to work as many hours as I needed at the time. I ended up started looking up for another job. I ended up getting this job in Scottsdale at this pretty nice facility. It’s called Center for Athletic Performance and Physical Therapy, pretty big facility. It has an indoor basketball court, has batting cages that drop down, there was a mound in there so we could throw bullpens and a big weight room. There was also this other side of it that was all physical therapy. We had about six or seven physical therapists there. I was a part of a staff of three strength conditioning specialists that worked on the performance side. With my history of working in physical therapy, coming off my own surgery, I actually became the bridge man between the rehab side, the physical therapy, and transitioning people over into the performance. I didn’t have to work too hard in that sense. I’d always been good with my hands as far as playing baseball, exchanging, and hand-eye coordination. I learned a lot. I actually put on a few camps for the high schools around there for not only baseball but speed and strength and agility. We did it all. It was a great experience.
How did you transfer over to chiropractic then?
I’d always had this alternative mindset. I’m not from a family of chiropractors. I had one growing up but I didn’t really go to see him that much. My mom went to see one, Dr. Alex BeDell in Warrensburg. She always swore by it. She had a few back surgeries. They never really do much for her. She never really responded well. I was always curious to what are the other strategies, what are the other ways that we can approach these injuries, diseases? What’s the other side of this coin? I was led to alternative health, not just chiropractic, it’s more than that; everything from nutrition to exercise and just mostly it’s lifestyle mentality.
It’s sad how we have to say alternative healthcare because we now know that’s what people should be looking to first than pumping themselves with pills and everything. It’s sad to see.
I totally agree. I think a lot of people are realizing this. A lot of people have known this for a long time. People are looking for a different way. People are looking for a new way to stay healthy that doesn’t require taking some pharmaceutical every single day. We’re all going to depend on some things, we’re humans. But I think you should try to be as out of body and objective as you can, try to not become influenced in. Too much of anything is bad. We see it day in and day out that these prescription drugs get abused. I had the opportunity to come to a crossroads. The facility was great but I also saw some things going on there regarding insurance and just the mainstream pharmaceutical medical money-making machine and transitioning all the way down to physical therapy. It was all like a conveyor belt. It wasn’t specialized.
It wasn’t about the person. There was a connection missing. I knew that the connection that we have with each other not only from doctor to patient but from person-to-person can be one of the most healing things. Whenever you’re missing that connection, the mind and the body is very powerful. The better the setting, the better the energy, the vibes, and the people that are around you, you’re only going to heal better because the exercises and the nutrition, they go a long ways. But if your internal biochemistry is always a little off due to anxiety, due to depression, then that’s going to result in less healing. It’s different.
It’s really cool to see where everything’s going because it’s not alternative. It should be the first thing that people go to: conservative health, diet, nutrition, exercise. There are tons of studies out there, Kev, about how exercise is the number one thing for depression. It’s the number one thing for depression, but the United States is the most sedentary country in the world. We also prescribe the most pharmaceuticals for depression. It just doesn’t take that much brain power and that much investigation to know everything that people tell you and all the things that we’ve been taught along the way, it’s not for the benefit of the individual. I’m not a huge conspiracy theorist or anything, I don’t want to go down those roads, but at the same time you have to be able to think for yourself. You have to be able to question not only yourself but the situation around you, question the authority around you. I’m not saying to be a troublemaker but just be able to know what you’re doing to yourself, know what you’re putting in your body, know what you’re exposing and subjecting yourself to, and make your own decision. At the end of the day, you’re the one that has to live with yourself. You’re the one that’s influencing the people around you that you love. You don’t want to have some negative energy or other impact distorting that or inhibiting that in any way.
I wanted to be my own boss. That’s the reason I applied to chiropractic school. I applied to Los Angeles College of Chiropractic which is underneath the Southern California University of Health Sciences’ umbrella. I ended up getting accepted there. Shortly after, I moved out to California. Somehow I always knew when I was a kid. I actually told this to my fourth grade best friend, his name was Austin. I told him I’m going to move to California one day. At the time, I had no idea what I was talking about. Somehow, I always felt drawn to California. It’s a launching pad for a lot of people. After moving to Los Angeles, I feel like I could live anywhere in the world. There’s so much culture, so much availability to whatever you want to do, whether it’s different type of music, if you want to go get a different kind of food, meet different people, anything. You have the ability to do that as long as you’re open and have the means of getting out there and making yourself vulnerable and learning. Anytime you’re open and anytime that you can put yourself out there is an opportunity to grow. It’s an opportunity to gain perspective. That’s what life is about.
Being in California alone, just taking it all in, going to the beach every day, sun’s out every day completely just changes your mindset on almost every aspect of your life.
It’s a catapult. It’s exponential at that point because once you go to the beach, you meet other people just like yourself. Not only LA, we had the opportunity to come to a school where some of them had history of family chiropractors and things like that. But for the most part, everybody there was on the same page as far as where our society is at in healthcare and where we want to take it in the future, what legacy we want to leave behind for future generations. That was cool because we all pushed each other every single day, not only just in the science and basic sciences, anatomy, physiology, hours and hours of studying that takes to get through the school.
It’s hard work. For anybody that says chiropractic school is not hard work, they have no idea what they’re talking about. It’s just like anything else or any other education, you’re going to get what you put into it. You’re going to get out of it what you put into it. I wanted to use that Doctorate program to sit down and be like, “I’m spending a lot of money on this. I’m going to devote a lot of time on this. I want to soak in as much as I can.” It was an amazing experience, not only coming to California and being around other people that already have that open mindset and having the beach and the nature. I love to go hiking. I actually started hiking a lot in Arizona whenever I lived there because I didn’t have enough money. If I couldn’t go out on the weekend, I would just find a cool hike to do and just drive out there. It just costs me the gas to get there.
*That’s one thing I never did in New Jersey, I never hiked and camped. When I got out to California, everybody’s camping, hiking. It’s unreal, especially all the places you can go. You can go surfing in the morning and be snowboarding in the afternoon. It’s unreal. You were a big part of my California experience alone because I did come out there open-minded and I met you. You are pretty much one of the most open-minded people I’ve ever met. You turned me on to a lot of things that I had no idea about. I’m very grateful for that. When did you start doing some research on psychedelic drugs or whatever and all that stuff? You grew up hearing horror stories about that. You grew up hearing it takes ice cream scoops out of your brain. The trips, they last forever. I was always deathly afraid of that stuff, I never touched it my entire life. Then I met you who did the research on it and you knew what you were talking about. I was like, “This sounds very interesting. *
It takes a special type of person even though probably billions of people throughout history have used these sacraments to improve their life and others have used them to abuse; 5% of the people cause 95% of the problem. That’s just the way it is for most of the things in our society. Going back to getting a pit bull, going back to questioning cannabis and alcohol and prescription drugs and surgery and chiropractic versus other modalities, it really wasn’t that far of a stretch for me to be like, “There’s got to be something else here whenever it comes to these illicit drugs.” I’m not talking about heroin and cocaine or anything like that. I’m strictly talking about the psychedelics that promote an expansion of consciousness.
What drugs might those be?
Just to name a few off the top of my head: Dimethyltryptamine, DMT is the spirit molecule. It’s found in almost every single living organism on Earth. It’s a very simple molecule. It’s actually what is used during the Ayahuasca sacraments down in South America that are becoming very popular. A lot of people are going down there. It’s not a party drug. It’s not something you’re going to do all the time. After you do it, you don’t ever want to do it again because it’s hardcore. It’s a cleanse for not only your body, but it’s a cleanse for your mind and allows you to get out of yourself for a second.
Our own brain makes it, right? It is made within us?
That’s true. There are different theories on where it’s made but one of them is the pineal gland. Dr. Rick Strassman has done a lot of research on DMT throughout the ‘90s. That’s one of his perspectives. DMT is a molecule that’s released whenever you dream, during near-death experiences. It plays a major role in our consciousness. If you have elevated levels of DMT maybe genetically, your world is going to be a little bit more colorful, a little bit more psychedelic. Therefore if you have lesser levels of DMT, sometimes your world can be a little bit grayer, a little bit lower, I guess you could say. Part of the whole debate behind fluoride, is a heavy metal neurotoxin, is that it actually calcifies the pineal gland in the brain. If you’re doing that, you’re going to be inhibiting that gland, you’re going to be inhibiting the DMT pathways and therefore making the person lower, making them more docile. That’s always a conspiracy theory.
You can just get excessive fluoride from just drinking the tap water?
Yeah. Fluoride’s in our tap water and obviously it’s in 90% of our toothpaste. I asked dentists, I asked people that work in water and sewage, “Why do we have it in there? It’s a known neurotoxin.” It’s the same answer every time: to protect your teeth. I have different ways I can protect my teeth without ruining my brain. I’m not going to say the water ruins your brain or something. Let’s go ahead and do things that aren’t going to inhibit you in any way. Let’s do things that are going to promote optimization of functionality in these pathways and of your total body. Therefore, if your brain’s functioning at the highest frequencies then your life is going to be that way. That’s one of them. Dimethyltryptamine is known as the spirit molecule. If anyone hasn’t seen the documentary on that, it’s very educational. There are also lots of research on Dimethyltryptamine. That’s one of the psychedelics. I like to relate that one first because it’s made naturally inside of us. It coincides very well with our body whenever we ingest it.
Whenever they’re doing Ayahuasca ceremonies, and this is an ancient ritual, thousands of year’s, goes way back. It’s cool when you go down there and do it. I haven’t had the opportunity yet but it’s definitely on my agenda. I’ve done a lot of research on it. I’ve read a few books and watched documentaries. How they came up with this, I have no idea. They’re in the jungle. They took a tree bark that has Dimethyltryptamine in it. I don’t remember the name of the exact species of the tree. Lots of trees have different levels of DMT. They’ll take another plant that has a monoaminooxidase inhibitor, which basically prevents the breakdown of DMT in your liver and allows the experience to prolong.
Whenever you inhale DMT, the experience comes on almost immediately and can last about fifteen minutes. Whenever you ingest it through the Ayahuasca brew or the tea with the MAO inhibitor, it basically prolongs the experience. They’ll have a six-hour experience, they’ll go into a trance. Like I said, this is all done around a safety setting with the shamans. There’s drumming, there’s chanting. It can be a tough experience for some people because a lot of people bury their demons, and those things get brought up. The cool part about it is you get to face those from a different perspective than you always have. You’re not facing it as a victim anymore. It’s like you’re able to remove yourself from your own experience and look at it from a bird’s eye view or, like I like to say, a divine view.
We all have stuff that we’re dealing with. Every single day, there’s something new that’s going on that we just hold on to. Sometimes, it could be childhood things. Sometimes, it could be financial. It’s just anxiety in general. That’s where people make their biggest jumps, is when they’re in the moment. Whenever you have your biggest levels of catharsis and gain some perspective is when you’re living in the moment. Whenever you get too outside of that, say you’re anxious about what’s to come or what you don’t have or what you haven’t acquired yet or maybe you are depressed about something that happened to you or something that didn’t work out, those are two different time zones. You’re not focusing on what’s around you. If you focus on your present, the ego-driven anxiety and depression, it tones itself down. I’m not saying it’s going to completely go away but I think looking at people’s mentality and their outlook in life should be the primary prescription and not SSRIs and Xanax and all these things that people are taking for anxiety and depression.
We’re not that smart yet. Whenever we develop these drugs, it’s not like they went and looked at the brain and found a certain part of the brain that wasn’t functioning and then they went and developed a drug based on that. That would be pretty cool. What they did was developed the drugs and then tested them, some of them, some just got blasted through FDA approval. You can say, “It does this to the person, we’re going to use it for depression.” The SSRIs, it’s just a blanket. They don’t act in any specific mechanism that is going to be in a controlled fashion in the biochemical process. All they do is open up the floodgates and prevent the enzymes from breaking down serotonin. Basically, you flood the brain in serotonin. That’s why people, when they’re on them, they feel a little better.
The cool thing about the psychedelics, like psilocybin coming from the magic mushroom, is our body actually knows what to do with it and integrates it into a very natural way. From an evolutionary standpoint, if you look back, the genetics cross paths somewhere along the line. Serotonin is one of the most ancient neurotransmitters. That’s what these psychedelics act on, are the serotonin receptors. Some of them act on other receptors as well, like dopamine or acetylcholine and the epinephrine and norepinephrine. It’s awesome because our body overtime had to adapt. There is a lot of overlap. One neurotransmitter might have several different processes. Serotonin not only controls mood and our function of how our outlook is. It’s a tryptamine comes from the amino acid tryptophan. The whole pathway is highly related to melatonin. That is also made in the pineal gland. Melatonin and DMT and serotonin, they’re all chemically structured very similarly. The SSRIs, they flood those synaptic clefts with serotonin, but these psychedelics, they actually integrate themselves very specifically and in a very controlled manner and biochemically have the mechanics to get in there and cause different changes in the brain.
What’s cool about the psychedelics and the research behind them is they’re a microscope. It’s a microscope into our selves, not only from a subjective standpoint but from a scientific standpoint as well. It’s allowing us, especially with the use of diagnostic imaging like functional MRIs and Thermography and PET scans, we’re able to see which parts of the brain are more activated, which have become more inhibited during each drug experience and then we relate that back to the patient or the person inside the machine, what their subjective experience is. We can see on the screen that this part of the brain is lighting up but they’re also explaining that they’re having these feelings at the same time, this mystical feeling. It’s allowing us to learn our own brains. At the same time, that patient is learning about themselves or at least for a momentary amount of time. If they’re not learning about themselves, they’re just stepping out of themselves for a second so they can catch their breath mentally.
Going back to chiropractic, so many people, they don’t realize what they’re carrying with them physically until we work on them. “I feel fine.” Your nervous system becomes centralized and you become numb almost to your daily postures. The body is very adaptive. You don’t even realize that you’re building these adhesions based on your daily posture. A lot of people get the upper tract tightness just from sitting at work. Stress basically can result in these muscles becoming overactive and hypertonic. That is cool because it relates back to serotonin. The part of the brain called the periaqueductal gray area is a pain gate pathway. The primary neurotransmitter used for that pathway is also serotonin. Serotonin plays a big role in our body’s ability to regulate pain pathways.
That’s why depression and anxiety have such huge roles in how we feel. When we’re depressed, it hurts. It feels like you’re hurt. The same way whenever you’re overly anxious. It almost feels overwhelming. That’s because, there’s so much overlap in these neurotransmitters. There’s so much overlap in ourselves that we can’t distinguish between mind and body because it really is all connected biochemically and macromolecule-y. The cells, their metabolism and everything, it all copulate together to give us and then you add in all the bacteria that are inside microbiome and all the stuff we’re covered in. It’s crazy because serotonin is primarily found in the gut. There’s been a lot of different research on different probiotics and different bacteria that regulate gut health. It’s really cool. There are some really cool things coming out.
One of the researches is for depression. They actually took mice that had a dysbiotic gut where their microbiome in their gut was not very healthy based on the control and the food that they were giving them. The other mice were very healthy in the sense that their microbiome was very well-regulated. They’ve been given probiotics. They’d measured through chemical processes, blood chemistry, different levels of dopamine and different levels of cortisol, which is the stress hormone. They realized that the mice with the better microbiome actually had lower levels of cortisol. That means they’re just less stressed out. We know that not only the food that we eat but also the types of bacteria that we have in our gut play a big role in not only the serotonin production but overall use of our food and how that is turned into energy. It goes all the way back full circle.
A quick note on that actually, when I was in Arizona, I was working at the center for performance I told you earlier. I was taking a football player through some ladder drills. We were working on agility. Before then I had always been into nutrition but it hadn’t changed my life the way it was about to. I had eaten an apple about twenty minutes before I had my guy over and we were taking a few drills. I started to feel a little hot, a little weird and I said, “Go ahead and take five. I’m going to go to the bathroom real quick.” I walk into the bathroom, look into the mirror and instantly I was like, “Holy cow. What’s going on?” Because my face was completely red and my eyes were swelling shut, my cheeks were swelling. I walked into my boss’ office and looked at him. He was like, “Holy cow. What’s going on?” I was like, “I don’t know. I have no idea.”
That is so crazy because my parents were actually out visiting me at that time. They came to my work that day. They were waiting in the lobby to hang out with me and I walked out to the lobby and I’m just blowing up like a balloon. The facility wanted to call the ambulance but there was a hospital right down the road, so my parents rushed me to the hospital. I was sneezing every two seconds. My eyes were swollen shut. My throat was swelling shut. My heart rate was picking up. I literally thought that I was going to die right there. It was very scary. The only thing I feel that kept me alive was my ability to remain calm.
Was it tough to breathe too? Did you not breathe that well?
It was like breathing through a straw while climbing Mt. Everest. My throat was completely swollen shut almost. My heart rate was picking up. It was very uncomfortable. The only thing that kept me in the moment and kept me there I feel was my history of taking psychedelic drugs and being able to go into my meditation. I went into a state of Zen and I tried to just remain calm. I really feel that saved my life. When I got to the hospital, it still took about over an hour for the epinephrine to kick in, for the Benadryl to kick in. They gave me a couple other steroids. Come to find out, the whole reason that happened was because of a pesticide on the apple. I was actually allergic to one of the pesticides on the apple. From then on, I tried to only eat organic.
I became much more in tune with what I was putting into my body. Not only that, but I was becoming more in tune with how things are grown and all the different processes that go into how food is made, how it’s distributed, getting out and supporting local farmers. It’s all for the betterment of not only yourself, what you’re eating, but also the environment. It helps the right people that are pushing for that. That was a big thing for me then. That was also what pushed me to more of the alternative. This is the mainstream way which food is grown. The whole food industry is being raped a little bit by these genetic farming. I’m not saying that all of it is bad but I definitely don’t think that it should be the main source.
Going back full circle, talking about the gut health and how important that is, linking the destruction of the membrane or the basal cell layer inside the gut where all the food is broken down. The microvilli in there, their job is to pull in the nutrients of the food. What happens is, whenever food isn’t broken down the way it’s supposed to, whenever the molecules are too big, there’s destruction to that membrane. There should only be two or three amino acids big, some of them are ten or eleven amino acids big and getting into the bloodstream because of gap junctions and destruction to the cell walls. That leads to food allergies. Whenever you have oversized molecules running into your bloodstream because your intestinal lining is destroyed, this is all called leaky gut syndrome. It’s also some of the basis of a lot of these autoimmune diseases. Whenever these molecules aren’t broken down enough, they get into the blood, they’re actually attacked. Your body’s immune system will attack these compounds and put up little flags, little markers and say, “This is a foreign body. Next time, we’re going to attack it again.” Things like peanuts.
That’s where probiotics are essential.
It’s all essential. Probiotics are essential. Not only taking the supplements but primarily just eating good healthy organic food, removing processed foods, removing high doses of sugar and replacing it with highly nutritious food. For a long time, I did a lot of strength and conditioning. I like to work out. That was a big thing for me. I was eating a lot, trying to gain weight, trying to gain muscle. I know that’s a part of that lifestyle and that culture but I have lost about twenty pounds. I don’t really eat as much. I eat more highly nutritious food. I do some intermittent fasting here and there. I’ve never been more mentally clear in my life. I’m able to think clearer. I don’t have as much brain fog. I just noticed that whenever I was eating a lot, I was always tired. I was always lethargic. I had to take a nap in the middle of the day. Now, I’m just functioning on a higher level. It’s not only just gaining awareness and consciousness of what you’re eating but it goes back full circle, you’re able to do more. You’re able to research more when you’re able to think more clearly. That just catapults you. If I’m taking a nap, I can’t read my book or I can’t go and research something. Just having that mental energy is so crucial and can really lead to other discoveries.
First and foremost, people just need to take care of themselves. A great way to flush out toxins, a great way to improve your mental capacity and your overall body’s function is to get out and exercise. That’s always going to be my number one thing. I have always been big on exercise, increasing the body’s metabolism, getting increase in blood flow and distribution of oxygen and other nutrients to the tissues that need it, staying hydrated. I know you’re huge on the hydration and how important water is; not only water but the makeup of the water and what other constituents are in our water besides H2O. It all goes full circle.
Whenever it comes to nutrition, I can talk all day about this because it is it. It all starts at the gut. There have been a lot of research that shows that the vagus nerve goes down to the gut and helps stimulate the mesenteric plexus that controls the digestion of your food and the whole parasympathetic, sympathetic inhibition stimulation process. What happens sometimes is, whenever you get sick or you have a dysbiotic bacterial flora in your gut, there’s actually been studies shown that these bacteria can hijack your vagus nerve and send chemical messages back up to the brain causing you to actually become, I guess you could say, craving certain types of food. Bacteria and cancer, they live off sugar. Whenever you’re sick, that’s why you don’t really crave the good foods, you don’t want eat, but that’s what you need to get better. You’re craving that high sugar and it’s hard. “Where’s my free will in this?” These things are hijacking our brain.
Another thing too is when people get sick, they take the antibiotics and that completely wipes out your gut flora as well. It’s killing everything. You’re not feeling well, taking the medication, that’s just wiping it out completely and then you’ve got to work even harder to replenish it.
Antibiotics were a great discovery for medicine. They’ve definitely saved a lot of people’s lives. Just like anything else nowadays, they’re way overprescribed. You don’t need antibiotics for your common cold or your basic upper respiratory infection. These things will run their course. If you are going to take the antibiotics, you’ve got to realize you’re wiping out your entire microbiome. A lot of people will get Candida after a regimen of antibiotics, which is a yeast. You can have different types of yeast infections after antibiotics. A lot of people need to be aware to replenish their system with probiotics and healthy probiotic foods after taking antibiotics. If you are going to do that, definitely you have to follow-up. You have to do your homework because it’s not just a one and done, “We’ve got the sickness out of the way.”
I’m not living my life just to not be sick. While I’m on this planet, I want my heart to beat as well as it can, as many times as it can. I want my brain to function on the highest level it can. I want to optimize myself. It’s not about just preventing sickness because that’s what a lot of our healthcare system today is built around, as you know, sick care and not so much health care. That’s why a lot of the insurance companies don’t cover preventive health. We don’t cover preventive health. They don’t cover wellness plans. That’s what’s required to have good health. That’s what’s required for people to not only be healthy, but to live the life that they want. That’s the main thing. I want to help people reach their dreams.
It’s crazy too because they’re saying sitting is just as bad as smoking for you now.
Sedentary life is the new smoking.
That’s how those discs in our back get their nutrients. There’s no direct blood flow so you’ve got to start moving around to get your back some nutrients. If you’re sitting still whole day, they’re just going to dry out like a sponge. You have to get moving to get the liquid back in there and hydrated.
He’s talking about inhibition and those proteoglycans in our disc. Keep it moving. Not only are you going to improve your mental capacity, but you’re also going to improve the longevity of your own body. A lot of our degeneration that goes on in our spine and in our joints all over from our knees down to our ankles, shoulders, you name it, it comes from a lack of awareness. A lot of people might have a predisposition due to genetics for arthritis or a certain type of autoimmunity that causes degeneration in our joints, but for the most part, it’s lifestyle. Everything from what we put into our body to what we do with it, and even more importantly what we do at our jobs, what is our job on a daily basis. For many people, it’s sitting in front of a computer, hunched over on a chair. You might be on a chair for eight hours a day then you take your car home, ride and commute for 30 minutes to an hour. Then you get home and you sit down and make dinner, and by that time, you’re ready to go lay down and go to bed and do it again the next day.
A lot of people spend 90% of their day either lying down or sitting down. It’s hard even as a chiropractor to reverse that whenever. You can go and get adjusted, but if you’re going right back to doing what you were doing before, it’s going to be really hard for that adjustment to hold and maintain. That’s why I talk to a lot of my patients not only about how they can improve their posture but what exercises, what stretches they can do, what other ways that they can occupationally improve their situation so that they don’t have to keep coming and getting adjusted forever, but also just improving their overall work experience. I’m tired of the fake, “I’m doing good.” Whenever you ask somebody how their day is going and you can see it in their eyes that they’re in that chronic pain, whether that’s actual physical pain or whether it’s depression. You can tell. I’m tired of hearing the same old thing, “I’m good.” “No, tell me how you really are and let’s go ahead and make proper steps to improve that. If your job is stressing you out, I’m sorry to say it but use your brain.” Our mental capacity and people’s abilities go way beyond what they can themselves credit for. For everybody who thinks that they’re stuck in a certain position or they have to have that job, you might financially, but there’s also different ways.
I just want everybody to be happy. I want people to feel like they’re doing something that makes them happy, that they’re helping other people, that they’re actually having a good impact. That’s a part of what Chromatic Healing is, taking that next step to healthcare, not just medicine, not just the adjustments, not just the exercise but referring back to the connection; the connection that we have with each other, the connection that we have with ourselves and to our society, the connection that we have to our future generations and what we’re going to leave behind, what legacy we’re going to leave for them. That’s stimulating. We’re a tribal community. We’re very tribal. We’re very social beings. If you look at different regions and things like that throughout history, we like to bend together. We like to be with people that are like-minded but at the same time, it’s important to be with people that are like-minded and pushing towards a future that is sustainable, not based out of some insecurity or fear but more evidence-based, more scientific-based. That refers back to the psychedelics.
In the ‘50s, there were a lot of research going on regarding psychedelics, and that got a little shutdown as soon as the ‘60s hit. People started abusing different drugs like LSD. LSD was actually used in psychotherapy for the late ‘40s and most of the ‘50s before it became an illegal drug. There was a lot of potential, a lot of research being put out even back then. It’s amazing to go back and see what these guys were doing even back in those times. They’re trying to help people with schizophrenia. That was one of the original studies that LSD was used for to work on an addiction recovery and also study schizophrenia.
The word psychedelic was coined by a British doctor. His name was Humphry Osmond. That was in 1957. He was one of the first medical professionals to use LSD for addiction recovery treatment and also for the study of schizophrenia. He actually chose those words psychedelic which comes from two Greek words, psyche meaning mind and delos meaning manifesting. Psychedelic literally means mind manifesting. As Western doctors and scientists knew very little about psychedelics and how they worked on the human brain, it’s a catch-all term that was used and is still used today for psychedelic research. I like those words “mind manifesting” because everything is mind manifesting, everything is psychedelic. What we experience, everything that we take in from our nervous system, all the way from the neurons and the nerve endings on our fingertips to internally how we feel, what we see, everything is a biochemical compilation that is projected for us to understand. Therefore, everything is psychedelic. Everything is mind manifesting.
These psychedelics, they just act on those biochemical pathways that are already there. They don’t put in anything into your body that isn’t you. It simply activates receptors that are already there and causes different processes to take place. Much like scar tissue after a surgery, your neurons can build fibrotic tissue over the nerve connections. People that use the same pathways over and over again, it just makes it harder to break those free because they become almost like a highway. They become interstate. They become more fibrotic. It’s just harder to break those tendencies, that’s why people get caught in the cycle. It’s not just a habit. These are biochemical processes that actually there’s anatomy being changed based on the way you think. We’re adaptive beings. We have to be that way. We’re animals.
What got me interested originally is that study you were telling me about with how they were micro dosing people with depression and they were actually giving it to veterans coming back with PTSD and just doing great things with that because I was battling depression a little bit too. Once I heard you talking about that and showing me the research, I was like, “There must be something to this.”
There’s a lot to it because civilizations for thousands of years, before we even started using science, knew the benefits of these rituals. Talking about Ayahuasca and San Pedro Cactus and the Peyote cactus have been used in Native American rituals for a long time. Psilocybin which is the active ingredient in magic mushrooms has been used for a long time especially all over the world. If you look back at Mayan culture down in Mexico, they spoke highly of the mushroom. They were all using these different types of plant medicines in their area to enhance their own experience and gain consciousness and build their connection with their society and their family. It was a very tribal ritual. It’s not people going out and getting obliterated. It’s a sacrament. That’s the way it should be. That’s a part of what our society is missing, we don’t have a lot of teachers out here. People have to figure out things for themselves. We’re just not super bonded that way. Whenever we find people that we can bond with like that, we can have those ceremonies together, it could be life changing. It can lead for the better.
You take these substances and you go through the “trip” and you feel great and everything, but I find the next day even more amazing. I wake up the next day and I feel more refreshed. The first time I did it, I felt like I was in high school again. I feel so amazing. It was just unreal. I just felt refreshed and rejuvenated unlike anything I’ve ever experienced before in a long time.
Part of that is because some of the drug actually stays and has a half-life that stays in your body for a couple of days to weeks depending on the drug afterwards. There’s also that shifting catharsis, that shift in understanding, knowing that you just experienced something mystical and something amazing. There have been several studies promoted by the MAPS organization, which is the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. They’re the forefront for psychedelic research. It’s where I get a lot of my information from. I always like to go there first. These guys know a lot more about psychedelic drugs than I ever will. It’s really cool to be in connection with them and just learning all the new things coming out. They did a study on psilocybin on patients that had never taken magic mushrooms before. 80% of the subjects stated it was in the top five most amazing mystical experiences, most spiritual experiences that they had in their life. The other 20% said that it was the most spiritual experience of their life. It’s really cool. It’s turning on you more. It’ll show you the things that you’re dealing with, the people that wall those memories off, they locked them away in the basement. Psychedelics are the flashlights that allow you to go down into the basement and give yourself a hug and tell yourself, “I know what you’ve been through. Try to understand where they were at and why that even happened to you in the first place.”
It gives you empathy for the person that might have hurt you or the situation that might have hurt you. It gives you empathy for yourself so you don’t quite feel like the victim anymore. All of a sudden you have a new outlook on the old memory. That’s very powerful. The MAPS organization is so cool in a sense that they’re trying to get both psilocybin and MDMA, which is the active ingredient in ecstasy which is a street drug that is very frowned upon as far as people have had side effects because of other constituents that are in that drug.
It’s the other stuff they put in it that you don’t even know.
Exactly. You don’t know what you’re getting. Now, MAPS is getting the funding to get back to the work, get back to the research and see, what is this actual molecule? Whenever it’s put into a human body, what’s happening? They look at the blood chemistry, they look at the subjective experience, and they look at the diagnostic imaging. One thing that goes up with MDMA is prolactin and oxytocin. These are the bonding and loving hormones. They build empathy and trust. It’s great for psychotherapy whenever you’re in that setting with a therapist because it allows you to let your walls down and lets you get to work faster. It’s the perfect drug for psychotherapy. That’s what their trying to implement by 2021. They actually just passed their phase two trials for MDMA psychotherapy for PTSD. That was a big step. It’s really cool.
Basically, what they did was, they got around 100 patients that were clinically already diagnosed with PTSD. A lot of them were policemen, soldiers, firefighters, people that have high stress situations. I firmly believe that we all have some PTSD, it may not be on the same level as somebody coming back from Iraq or a police officer that has to deal with high stress situations every day. Everybody can benefit from talking to somebody about their life with or without drugs, just being more mindful and being more aware and looking back instead of always just pushing things to the side. The cool thing about these sessions is this isn’t a drug like an SSRI that you take every day. It’s not meant to make money. People aren’t going to make money off this. This is this thing that you do a session every few months and then you go back. What they did was they did three sessions. It was spaced out around a three-month period.
What happened was, after the first session, one of the guys actually dropped out. He’s an alcoholic. He had PTSD from the war. He said, “I no longer need alcohol. I no longer need MDMA. I don’t need anything.” He literally was like, “I’m good. I don’t need any more of this.” They’re like, “Can you at least come back and give us your testimony so that even though you’re dropping out of the study, we can tell everybody about your experience because that’s awesome.” He’s like, “Yeah.” He came back at the end of the study, which was a year later. They redid all the different tests that they’re using to diagnose people with PTSD and he, still after a year after one session, no longer qualified to be diagnosed with PTSD. For those that continued with the study showed very good results. I don’t want to be quoted on a percentage but it was a very high percentage of the people that just after three sessions of psychotherapy with this drug and same with the psilocybin, which is like I said the active ingredient in mushrooms, have profound effects. They’re able to get out of body. Whenever you can get out of body, you remove yourself from your vessel. You no longer need substances because you realize, “That’s just my body, it’s not my soul, it’s not my mind.”
One of my favorite quotes is by a philosopher named Descartes, he says, “I think, therefore I am.” The reason that he did that is he was actually doing his own research. Whenever he’s at his house, he was looking at the mirror and he tried to envision himself without a body. He could do it. His body was gone. He looked at the mirror again and he tried to envision himself without a mind and he couldn’t do that. You can’t imagine yourself without a mind. Once you can get out of your body, you realize, I no longer need this addiction to whatever people are addicted to, whether it’s drugs, alcohol, sex, shopping, food, whatever. You can break free of that. We’re not only breaking that mental mentality but we’re also breaking down biochemical processes. We’ve talked about that fibrotic connection that causes people to have repetitive loops and getting stuck in these routines and the circuitry behind it. That actually changes and allows us to take new pathways. We’re actually breaking down those fibrotic proteins and making new connections in our brain. That is amazing.
Part of what we know about the pharmacology of these drugs and how they act on the brain is they inhibit certain hubs in the brain that are highly active during daily thoughts, logical thinking, it’s called the default mode network. Whenever you drive to work, you don’t remember how you got there because you’re thinking about everything else, that’s a logical thinking that’s going on. These drugs, psychedelics, actually inhibit that part of the brain and allows for more free range and free thinking in other parts so you can use some more imagination and be more creative and things like that. I don’t want to spend the whole time talking about psychedelics. They’re amazing because they allow you to improve your life. That’s what this is about. Exercise can do that as well. Meditation.
You’re saying it brings you to a certain point that you can get there by using many things, psychedelics being one of them?
Yes. You can reach these psychedelic states with fasting, with meditation but that takes years and years of experience doing that, fasting. You don’t need to burn down the house just to bake a loaf of bread. It’s almost like if you’re raking your leaves in your yard, psychedelics is the leaf blower. It allows you to clear out the space a little bit faster. You can do it other ways. If you’re going to have somebody that has never meditated before, they might sit there for five or ten years before it finally hits them and they’re able to get into that. When you take a psychedelic, you know you’ve taken a psychedelic. It’s not going to hit you in five years, ten years, it’s right now. You’re going to go on a journey. You’re going to go on a trip. It’s all about improving your life, improving your outlook on what you put in your body, your food, improving how you become more motivated to help others, how you can be more motivated to educate yourself and do research and read, to influence others in a positive way and influence your society in a positive way, to build stronger relationships with the ones that are around you. Anytime you can step out of your situation and step out of the ego and look at your life from a bird’s eye view and take a new perspective towards things is a great way to take the next step. Sometimes I like to say, you’ve got to take a step back in order to take two steps forward. That’s what life is about. That’s a lot of what Chromatic Healing is about.
Chromatic Healing is my organization that I just started. I didn’t want to name it after myself. I want it to be something that anybody can be a part of. I want it to be something that anybody could run it. I don’t want to always be the one that takes the credit for it. This is part of a movement. This is what I want it to be. It’s part of a tribe, it’s part of a shift in consciousness. It’s a part of what our future needs. You know as well as I do, the world is looking for a better way to take care of themselves and how we can improve everything from our environment to both internally and externally. How are we going to do that? Chromatic Healing for me is my way of extending my reach. A part of that getting started is going around to different transformational festivals. Chromatic Healing is going to be working at these highly transformational festivals. This isn’t an electronic daisy festival, this isn’t a rave. These are people that go to these festivals to have transformation. There’s amazing music, there are guest speakers, philosophical speakers, nutrition speakers, there are healers there, there’s meditation, there’s yoga, there’s connection. That’s what everybody’s looking for. That setting is already transformational. What we’re going to do is bring chiropractic into that. I’m not the first one to do this but I definitely want to take it to the next level.
What we’re doing at Chromatic Healing is trying to implement ourselves with as many West Coast festivals as we can right now. We are currently been accepted to four coming up this spring. One of them here is in a couple of weeks out in the Mojave Desert. We’re going to meet up just over a weekend. I’ll be doing some healing there. There’s going to be music. It’s going to be a very tribal, very family-type vibe. It’s out in the desert so it’s the clearest night sky on Earth. We’re going to be staring up at the galaxy and everybody’s going to be good and having a good time. It’s going to be good vibes and energy. I’m really excited for that.
The one I’m really stoked for is Lucidity because it’s actually in our backyard there in Santa Barbara. It’s a big transformational festival in Santa Barbara. It was actually there last year. They have an actual healing sanctuary that’s designated for healers to come there. There are only a set number of people that can be accepted. Chromatic Healing was one of the healers that are going to be accepted. It’s going to be an amazing way to not only build connections and help people at the festivals. When you’ve been walking around all day, camping out, you’ve been dancing all day, your feet get tired, your knees, hips, lower back, everything gets a little achy. Muscles get achy. It’s going to be a type of thing where people can come in, get a quick treatment. It’s going to be very structured. It’s not the Wild West feeling. We’re going to get our stuff down. We’re going to be having good times. We’re going to be working hard and we’re going to make sure that it’s the type of setting that is healing and not just about having fun or whatever.
Another thing is I’m going to have my practice in Santa Barbara as well. I actually did an internship for the last six months with Barry Family Chiropractic. They’re a husband and wife duo out of Palmer West up in the Bay Area. They’ve been in practice for about fifteen years in Santa Barbara. They are going to allow me to rent out some space from them whenever they’re not there. They’re only going to be there for half day, a couple of days a week. What I’m going to do is whenever they’re not there, I’m going to be using that space and using that office. It’s right downtown in Santa Barbara. It’s a great location. I’ve been over the last month or two since we’ve been done with school. I’ve been just trying to network and build as many connections as I can everything from going down to the barbershop and talking to the barber, to my bank, to the cashier at Starbucks. No matter where I’m at, I’m trying to get it out there and just let people know that they have this service available to them and that they can be part of something that’s a huge movement. I’m not saying that we are the movement. We’re just one little factor in that. We definitely want to get launched at Santa Barbara.
Lucidity is going to be a great place to help catapult that because already, there’s about 6,000 or 7,000 people that have registered and bought tickets for this event. They’re going to come through that healing sanctuary. We’re going to help them there but we’re also going to point them out to where we’re going to be outside the festivals, where they can come and get regular treatment and what festivals we’re also going to be at in the near future. Lucidity, we’re looking at Lightning in a Bottle and Symbiosis. I’ve also applied to work at Zendo Project which is ran by MAPS. That’s basically a sanctuary for people to go to whenever they are having an overwhelming psychedelic experience and get calmed down. We have psychologists there, therapists, psychiatrists, different types of specialties all around that are there to diffuse the situation or show empathy whenever somebody’s having an overwhelming experience and help them get back to center and get back out there and groove to the music.
Daws, you are extremely passionate about it. I know you’re going to do great things. I’m really excited to looking forward to where this takes you very shortly.
It’s right around the corner. I put all my eggs into one big cosmic basket. This is all or nothing. I’ve trained my whole life for this. I’m just getting after it. A lot of it is just networking and that’s all it is for me. It’s not just about building a name as a chiropractor. I don’t want to have a bunch of labels. I want it to be more about the family and be more about everybody taking that next step for our next generation. This is a make or break point where we need to make these changes or else we’re going to continue down this wrong road. This is where it has to happen. The world’s looking for it and everybody’s on board. People are already looking for alternative ways. They don’t want to be taking these pharmaceuticals. They’re looking for that. Some people just need that guidance and they can jump on the train. You’re definitely going to be that person and already have been for a lot of people. I’m super excited for you as well. I’m honored to call you my friend. You are a great human just in general. Not only that, you’re just a special guy. I’m really excited to see where your career is going to take you and definitely going to have you out here soon for maybe one of these festivals. You can come help me out too. I’d definitely love to have you.
This was a great episode. We went over some really interesting stuff people haven’t heard about.
We’re going to have to do it again soon.
You’re coming back on.
There’s a lot to talk about. Maybe we can hit a few other things and stay a little bit more on top.
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